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{"id":6223,"date":"2024-03-12T23:59:21","date_gmt":"2024-03-12T23:59:21","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/?post_type=yada_wiki&#038;p=6223"},"modified":"2025-02-08T01:04:45","modified_gmt":"2025-02-08T01:04:45","slug":"hegel-uber-platon-007","status":"publish","type":"yada_wiki","link":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-007\/","title":{"rendered":"Hegel \u00fcber Platon 007"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-2384 aligncenter\" src=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/06\/Hegel-Round-300x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"103\" height=\"103\" srcset=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/06\/Hegel-Round-300x300.jpg 300w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/06\/Hegel-Round-150x150.jpg 150w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/06\/Hegel-Round-100x100.jpg 100w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/06\/Hegel-Round.jpg 485w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 103px) 100vw, 103px\" \/><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Parte de:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Lecciones de Historia de la Filosof\u00eda [Vorlesungen \u00fcber die Geschichte der Philosophie] \/ Primera parte: La Filosof\u00eda Griega [Erster Teil: Griechische Philosophie] \/ Secci\u00f3n Primera: de Tales a Arist\u00f3teles [Erster Abschnitt. Von Thales bis Aristoteles] \/ Cap\u00edtulo 3: Plat\u00f3n y Arist\u00f3teles [Drittes Kapitel: Platon und Aristoteles] \/ <strong>A. Plat\u00f3n [A. Philosophie des Platon]<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-5323 aligncenter\" src=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/Platon-Parriba-266x300.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"84\" height=\"95\" srcset=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/Platon-Parriba-266x300.png 266w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/Platon-Parriba-300x338.png 300w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/Platon-Parriba.png 314w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 84px) 100vw, 84px\" \/><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n<h1><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Vorlesungen im Atrium Philosophicum \u00a77<br \/>\n<\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Platons Hoffnungen scheiterten. Es war eine Verirrung Platons, durch Dionysios die Staatsverfassungen den Forderungen seiner philosophischen Idee anpassen zu wollen. Sp\u00e4ter schlug Platon es sogar anderen Staaten, die sich ausdr\u00fccklich an ihn wandten und ihn darum ersuchten, unter anderen den Bewohnern von Kyrene und den Arkadiern, ab, ihr Gesetzgeber zu werden. Es war eine Zeit, wo [18] viele griechische Staaten nicht mehr zurechtzukommen wu\u00dften mit ihren Verfassungen, ohne etwas Neues finden zu k\u00f6nnen. Jetzt, in den letzten drei\u00dfig Jahren, hat man viele Verfassungen gemacht, und jedem Menschen, der sich viel damit besch\u00e4ftigt hat, wird es leicht sein, eine solche zu machen. Aber das Theoretische reicht bei einer Verfassung nicht hin, es sind nicht Individuen, die sie machen; es ist ein G\u00f6ttliches, Geistiges, was sich durch die Geschichte macht. Es ist so stark, da\u00df der Gedanke eines Individuums gegen diese Macht des Weltgeistes nichts bedeutet; und wenn diese Gedanken etwas bedeuten, realisiert werden k\u00f6nnen, so sind sie nichts anderes als das Produkt dieser Macht des allgemeinen Geistes. Der Einfall, da\u00df Platon Gesetzgeber werden sollte, war dieser Zeit nicht angemessen; Solon, Lykurg waren es, aber in der Zeit Platons war dies nicht mehr zu machen. Platon lehnte ein weiteres Einlassen in den Wunsch jener Staaten ab, weil sie nicht in die erste Bedingung einwilligten, welche er ihnen machte, und diese war die Aufhebung alles Privateigentums. Dies Prinzip werden wir sp\u00e4ter noch betrachten bei seiner praktischen Philosophie.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-008\/#vorlesungen-im-atrium-philosophicum-8\"><span lang=\"de-DE\">Zum n\u00e4chsten Fragment gehen<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-006\/#vorlesungen-im-atrium-philosophicum-6\"><span lang=\"de-DE\">Zum vorherigen Fragment gehen<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-007\/\"><span lang=\"la-VA\">Zum Anfang dieser Seite<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-index\/\"><span lang=\"de-DE\">Zum Index<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<h1><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><span lang=\"la-VA\">Prael<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">\u0113<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">cti<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">\u014d<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">n<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">\u0113<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">s in <\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">\u0100<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">tri<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">\u014d<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\"> Philosophic<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">\u014d \u00a77<br \/>\n<\/span><\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">As\u00ed fracasaron las esperanzas de Plat\u00f3n; y no cabe duda de que el gran pensador se equivoc\u00f3 al creer que podr\u00eda adaptar, gracias a Dionisio, la organizaci\u00f3n pr\u00e1ctica del Estado a sus postulados filos\u00f3ficos. Aleccionado por esta experiencia, Plat\u00f3n rechaz\u00f3 las invitaciones de otros Estados, entre otras las de los habitantes de Cirene y Arcadia, que se dirigieron a \u00e9l pidi\u00e9ndole expresamente que fuese su legislador. Era una \u00e9poca en que muchos Estados griegos comprend\u00edan que no pod\u00edan salir adelante con las constituciones en ellos vigentes, pero sin acertar a descubrir por su cuenta nada nuevo.<sup class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote \" data-mfn=\"1\" data-mfn-post-scope=\"00000000000007770000000000000000_6223\"><a href=\"javascript:void(0)\"  role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" aria-describedby=\"mfn-content-00000000000007770000000000000000_6223-1\">1<\/a><\/sup><span id=\"mfn-content-00000000000007770000000000000000_6223-1\" role=\"tooltip\" class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote__note\" tabindex=\"0\" data-mfn=\"1\">Plat\u00f3n, <i>Cartas<\/i>, VII, p. 326 (p. 431).<\/span> En nuestro tiempo, en estos \u00faltimos treinta a\u00f1os,<sup class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote \" data-mfn=\"2\" data-mfn-post-scope=\"00000000000007770000000000000000_6223\"><a href=\"javascript:void(0)\"  role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" aria-describedby=\"mfn-content-00000000000007770000000000000000_6223-2\">2<\/a><\/sup><span id=\"mfn-content-00000000000007770000000000000000_6223-2\" role=\"tooltip\" class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote__note\" tabindex=\"0\" data-mfn=\"2\">Del curso de lecciones de 1825 [M.].<\/span>, se han redactado tambi\u00e9n muchas constituciones nuevas; es \u00e9sta una tarea f\u00e1cil de realizar para quien se halle habituado a esta clase de trabajos. Sin embargo, el talento te\u00f3rico no basta para redactar una constituci\u00f3n viable, pues los que las hacen no son los individuos, sino algo espiritual, algo divino, que se realiza a trav\u00e9s de la historia. Es algo tan fuerte, que el pensamiento de un individuo no significa nada frente a esta potencia del esp\u00edritu universal. Y, suponiendo que tales pensamientos signifiquen algo, es decir, que puedan ser realizados, no son sino el producto de esta fuerza del esp\u00edritu general. La idea de que Plat\u00f3n se erigiese en legislador no era una idea adecuada a aquel tiempo; Sol\u00f3n y Licurgo lo hab\u00edan sido, pero en la \u00e9poca de Plat\u00f3n esta idea era ya irrealizable. Plat\u00f3n se neg\u00f3 a acceder a los deseos de aquellos Estados que le solicitaban como legislador porque no aceptaron la primera condici\u00f3n que para ello les puso, la cual no fue otra que la abolici\u00f3n de la propiedad privada,<sup class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote \" data-mfn=\"3\" data-mfn-post-scope=\"00000000000007770000000000000000_6223\"><a href=\"javascript:void(0)\"  role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" aria-describedby=\"mfn-content-00000000000007770000000000000000_6223-3\">3<\/a><\/sup><span id=\"mfn-content-00000000000007770000000000000000_6223-3\" role=\"tooltip\" class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote__note\" tabindex=\"0\" data-mfn=\"3\">Di\u00f3genes Laercio, III, 23 (Menag. <i>ad. h. <\/i><i>l<\/i>.); Eliano, <i>Var<\/i>. <i>Histor<\/i>. II, 42; Plutarco, <i>Ad principem ineruditum<\/i>, <i>init.<\/i> p. 779, ed. Xyl.<\/span> principio que tendremos ocasi\u00f3n de examinar m\u00e1s adelante, cuando estudiemos su filosof\u00eda pr\u00e1ctica.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-008\/#praelectiones-in-atrio-philosophico-8\"><span lang=\"la-VA\">Perge ad sequ<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">\u0113<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">ns caput<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-006\/#praelectiones-in-atrio-philosophico-6\"><span lang=\"la-VA\">Redde ad prius caput<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-007\/\"><span lang=\"la-VA\">Perge ad initium paginae huius<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-index\/\"><span lang=\"la-VA\">Perge ad indicem<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<h1><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Lectures at the Atrium Philosophicum \u00a77<br \/>\n<\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 12pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">Plato\u2019s hopes foundered, for through Dionysius he had not succeeded in putting into effect the Idea of the state. Other states that turned to him for that express purpose, such as Cyrene, invited him to become their lawgiver, <\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">but Plato declined the offers <a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-007\/#x16x\">X16X<\/a>. (At that time several Greek states were no longer satisfied with their constitutions, but they did not find a good type of constitution anywhere else either <a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-007\/#x17x\">X17X<\/a>.) We have seen many constitutions drawn up in the past thirty yea<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">r<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">s, and anyone who takes the trouble to do it will find it easy to devise one. An a priori constitution, however, is far from adequate; and individuals are not the ones who make the constitution. The constitution is something divine, something higher; it is historically necessary, irresistible, and strong, so that the thoughts of one individual signify nothing over against the power of the world spirit and the strength of the national spirit; if those thoughts do have some significance, if they can be realized, then they are nothing other than the product of this power of the universal spirit. It was a false notion for those times that Plato should be the lawgiver in the state. Yes, Solon and Lycurgus could be lawgivers <a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-007\/#x18x\">X18X<\/a>; but in Plato\u2019s day this was no longer possible. Plato refused to do it because they did not consent to the first condition he set for them, which was the abolition of all private property, because there could be no such thing in a genuine state. We will deal with this principle later on, in his practical philosophy <a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-007\/#x19x\">X19X<\/a>. The Arcadians turned to Plato in similar fashion, but he rejected their request too <a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-007\/#x20x\">X20X<\/a>.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<h2 lang=\"en-GB\" style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 18pt;\">Some clarifications<\/span><\/h2>\n<h3 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 14pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">X<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">16X<\/span><\/span><\/h3>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 12pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">See Diogenes Laertius (<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"><i>Lives<\/i><\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> 3.23; Hicks, i. 296-9), who mentions Arcadia and Thebes. Hegel\u2019s mention of Cyrene may derive from Plutarch. See Plutarch\u2019s <\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"><i>Ad principem ineruditum<\/i><\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> 1, which states that the invitation came from Cyrene, not from Arcadia or Thebes, and that Plat<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">o <\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">refused because the Cyrenaeans were so prosperous that it was difficult to make laws for them, See Plutarch\u2019s <\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"><i>Moralia<\/i><\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">, vol. x, trans. H. N, Fowler (Loeb Classical Library; Cambridge, Mass., and London, 1936<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">)<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">, 52-3.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<h3 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 14pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">X17X<\/span><\/span><\/h3>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 12pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">This may refer to Plato\u2019s own judgment that all existing states were badly governed (Seventh Epistle 326a-b; Bury, pp. 482-3).<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<h3 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 14pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">X18X<\/span><\/span><\/h3>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 12pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">See <\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">I.A.1 o<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">n<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> this<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"><i> Lectures on the History of Philosophy<\/i><\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> (\u201cThe Seven Sages and the Milenians: Thales, Anaximander, Anaximenes\u201d)<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> for the account of the lawgiving activities of the seven sages.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<h3 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 14pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">X19X<\/span><\/span><\/h3>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 12pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">This point about the refusal of his views on property goes beyond Hegel\u2019s main sources and may come from Aelian (<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"><i>c<\/i><\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">. <\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">AD<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> 170-235), <\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"><i>Variae historiae<\/i><\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> 2.42, which connects equality of possessions (<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">\u03c4<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">\u1f78 \u1f36<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">\u03c3\u03bf\u03bd <\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">\u1f14<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">\u03c7\u03b5\u03b9\u03bd<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">)<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> with political equality (<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">\u1f30\u03c3\u03bf\u03bd\u03bf\u03bc\u03af\u03b1<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">)<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">, but without mentioning abolition of private property. Reference to Aelian at 3.23 appears in various editions of Diogenes Laertius. See also <\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">I.<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">C<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">.<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">2<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> o<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">n<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> this<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"><i> Lectures on the History of Philosophy<\/i><\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> (\u201c<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">Aristotle\u201d).<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<h3 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 14pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">X20X<\/span><\/span><\/h3>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 12pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">See n<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">ote <a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-007\/#x16x\">X16X<\/a><\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> just above.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-008\/#lectures-at-the-atrium-philosophicum-8\"><span lang=\"la-VA\">Go to the next fragment<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-006\/#lectures-at-the-atrium-philosophicum-6\"><span lang=\"la-VA\">Back to the previous fragment<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-007\/\"><span lang=\"la-VA\">Go to the top of this page<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/hegel-uber-platon-index\/\"><span lang=\"la-VA\">Go to the Index<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"wiki_cats":[31],"wiki_tags":[],"class_list":["post-6223","yada_wiki","type-yada_wiki","status-publish","hentry","wiki_cats-hegel-on-plato"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki\/6223","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/yada_wiki"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=6223"}],"version-history":[{"count":13,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki\/6223\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":11452,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki\/6223\/revisions\/11452"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=6223"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"wiki_cats","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/wiki_cats?post=6223"},{"taxonomy":"wiki_tags","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/wiki_tags?post=6223"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}