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{"id":1818,"date":"2023-05-02T00:05:12","date_gmt":"2023-05-02T00:05:12","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/?post_type=yada_wiki&#038;p=1818"},"modified":"2024-07-08T17:19:47","modified_gmt":"2024-07-08T17:19:47","slug":"gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00119","status":"publish","type":"yada_wiki","link":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00119\/","title":{"rendered":"Gespr\u00e4che in der D\u00e4mmerung 00119"},"content":{"rendered":"<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Parte de:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">A. Conciencia [A. Bewu\u00dftsein] \/\u00a0<strong>II: La percepci\u00f3n; o la <i>cosa<\/i> y la <i>equivocaci\u00f3n <\/i>[II. Die Wahrnehmung oder das Ding und die T\u00e4uschung]<\/strong><\/span><i><br \/>\n<\/i><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">[La separaci\u00f3n entre la reflexi\u00f3n-en-s\u00ed y el percibir; la conciencia percipiente como el medio del ser la cosa una; y de c\u00f3mo ese medio resulta no ser la conciencia, sino la cosa]<\/span><\/p>\n\n<h1 lang=\"de-DE\" style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Gespr\u00e4che in Jena<\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><strong>[119]<\/strong> Ich werde also zuerst des Dings als <i>Eines<\/i> gewahr und habe es in dieser wahren Bestimmung festzuhalten; wenn in der Bewegung des Wahrnehmens etwas dem Widersprechendes vorkommt, so ist dies als meine Reflexion zu erkennen. Es kommen nun in der Wahrnehmung auch verschiedene Eigenschaften vor, welche Eigenschaften des Dings zu sein scheinen; allein das Ding ist Eins, und von dieser Verschiedenheit, wodurch es aufh\u00f6rte, Eins zu sein, sind wir uns bewu\u00dft, da\u00df sie in uns f\u00e4llt. Dies Ding ist also in der Tat nur wei\u00df, an <i>unser<\/i> Auge gebracht, scharf <i>auch<\/i>, an <i>unsere<\/i> Zunge, <i>auch<\/i> kubisch, an <i>unser<\/i> Gef\u00fchl usf. Die g\u00e4nzliche Verschiedenheit dieser Seiten nehmen wir nicht aus dem Dinge, sondern aus uns; sie fallen uns an unserem von der Zunge ganz unterschiedenen Auge usf. so auseinander. Wir sind somit das <i>allgemeine Medium<\/i>, worin solche Momente sich absondern und f\u00fcr sich sind. Hierdurch also, da\u00df wir die Bestimmtheit, allgemeines Medium zu sein, als unsere Reflexion betrachten, [99] erhalten wir die Sichselbstgleichheit und Wahrheit des Dinges, Eins zu sein.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00120\/\">Siguiente p\u00e1rrafo<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00118\/\">P\u00e1rrafo anterior<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00000\/\">Ir al \u00edndice<\/a><\/p>\n<h1 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Conversaciones en Valencia<\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><strong><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">[La separaci\u00f3n entre la reflexi\u00f3n-en-s\u00ed y el percibir; la conciencia percipiente como el medio del ser la cosa una; y de c\u00f3mo ese medio resulta no ser la conciencia, sino la cosa]<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><b>[119]<\/b> Primero, pues, me percato de la cosa como <i>algo uno<\/i>, y tengo que retenerla en esta determinaci\u00f3n verdadera; y si en el movimiento del percibir se presenta algo que contradice a esto, no tengo m\u00e1s remedio que reconocerlo como mi reflexi\u00f3n; ahora bien, en la percepci\u00f3n se presentan tambi\u00e9n diversas propiedades, las cuales parecen ser propiedades de la cosa; s\u00f3lo que la cosa es algo uno y, por tanto, somos conscientes de que esta diversidad, a causa de la cual la cosa cesar\u00eda de ser algo uno, recae en nosotros. Esta cosa es, pues, efectivamente s\u00f3lo blanca cuando nos la ponemos ante <i>nuestros ojos<\/i>, pero <i>tambi\u00e9n<\/i> de sabor fuerte [salada] cuando nos la aplicamos a <i>nuestra<\/i> lengua, y <i>tambi\u00e9n<\/i> c\u00fabica cuando se la refiere a <i>nuestro<\/i> sentido espacial. La entera diversidad de tales respectos no es algo que tomemos de la cosa, sino de nosotros, y as\u00ed resulta que caen unos fuera de otros recay\u00e9ndonos en nuestros ojos en cuanto completamente distintos de nuestra lengua, etc. Somos, pues, nosotros el <i>medio universal<\/i> en que tales momentos se separan e individualizan y son para s\u00ed. Y por esa v\u00eda, pues, es decir, por la v\u00eda de haber de considerar nosotros como reflexi\u00f3n nuestra la determinidad de ser nosotros medio universal, y s\u00f3lo por esa v\u00eda, mantenemos la igualdad consigo misma de la cosa y la verdad de la cosa, es decir, el ser la cosa algo uno.<\/span><\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_5165\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-5165\" style=\"width: 110px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-5165\" src=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/JohnLocke-300x300.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"110\" height=\"110\" srcset=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/JohnLocke-300x300.png 300w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/JohnLocke-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/JohnLocke-100x100.png 100w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/JohnLocke.png 362w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 110px) 100vw, 110px\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-5165\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Remember the distinction between <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Primary%E2%80%93secondary_quality_distinction\">primary and secondary qualities<\/a><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<figure id=\"attachment_5115\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-5115\" style=\"width: 88px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-5115\" src=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/04\/Gottfried_Wilhelm_von_Leibniz.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"88\" height=\"102\" \/><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-5115\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Dieser Ansatz wird nicht <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Identity_of_indiscernibles\">funktionieren<\/a><\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00120\/\">Siguiente p\u00e1rrafo<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00118\/\">P\u00e1rrafo anterior<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00000\/\">Ir al \u00edndice<\/a><\/p>\n<h1 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Conversaciones en Madrid<\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><b>[119]<\/b> Primero, pues, percibo la cosa como un <i>Uno<\/i>, y he de mantenerla firmemente en esta determinaci\u00f3n verdadera; si en el movimiento del percibir adviene algo que le contradiga, eso ha de reconocerse como mi reflexi\u00f3n. Ahora bien, en la percepci\u00f3n advienen tambi\u00e9n diversas propiedades que parecen ser propiedades de la cosa; s\u00f3lo que la cosa es Una, y somos conscientes de que esa diversidad, por la que la cosa deja de ser Una, cae dentro de nosotros XX*X.<sup class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote \" data-mfn=\"1\" data-mfn-post-scope=\"00000000000007750000000000000000_1818\"><a href=\"javascript:void(0)\"  role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" aria-describedby=\"mfn-content-00000000000007750000000000000000_1818-1\">1<\/a><\/sup><span id=\"mfn-content-00000000000007750000000000000000_1818-1\" role=\"tooltip\" class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote__note\" tabindex=\"0\" data-mfn=\"1\">Hegel interviene aqu\u00ed en la discusi\u00f3n sobre las cualidades secundarias. Locke, en el <i>Essay Concerning <\/i><i>H<\/i><i>uman Understanding<\/i>, distingu\u00eda las cualidades primarias de las cosas, ligadas a su extensi\u00f3n, y las cualidades secundarias, relacionadas con el efecto de las cosas sobre los sentidos: no estar\u00edan, por tanto, en s\u00ed en las cosas. Cf. Locke, J.: <i>Essay Concerning <\/i><i>Human Understand<\/i><i>ing<\/i>, Libro II, cap. VIII, en<i> Works of John Locke<\/i><i>, <\/i>vol. 1, <i>op. cit.<\/i>, pp. 117-129.<\/span> Entonces, esta cosa, de hecho, es puesta como s\u00f3lo blanca delante de<i> nuestros<\/i> ojos, y<i> tambi\u00e9n<\/i> como picante en nuestra lengua,<i> tambi\u00e9n<\/i> c\u00fabica al tacto, etc\u00e9tera. Toda la diversidad de estos aspectos no la tomamos de la cosa, sino de nosotros; se nos separan y caen as\u00ed ante nuestros ojos, que son totalmente diferentes de la lengua, etc\u00e9tera. Nosotros somos, por tanto, el <i>medio universal<\/i> donde tales momentos se separan particulariz\u00e1ndose y son para s\u00ed. Por el hecho, pues, de que contemplamos la determinidad de ser medio universal como nuestra reflexi\u00f3n, somos nosotros los que conservamos la seipseigualdad y la verdad de la cosa: ser Una.<\/span><\/p>\n<h2 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Algunas aclaraciones<\/span><\/h2>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><b>XX*X =<\/b> Hegel interviene aqu\u00ed en la discusi\u00f3n sobre las cualidades secundarias. Locke, en el <i>Essay Concerning <\/i><i>H<\/i><i>uman Understanding<\/i>, distingu\u00eda las cualidades primarias de las cosas, ligadas a su extensi\u00f3n, y las cualidades secundarias, relacionadas con el efecto de las cosas sobre los sentidos: no estar\u00edan, por tanto, en s\u00ed en las cosas. Cf. Locke, J.: <i>Essay Concerning <\/i><i>Human Understand<\/i><i>ing<\/i>, Libro II, cap. VIII, en<i> Works of John Locke<\/i><i>, <\/i>vol. 1, <i>op. cit.<\/i>, pp. 117-129.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00120\/\">Siguiente p\u00e1rrafo<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00118\/\">P\u00e1rrafo anterior<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00000\/\">Ir al \u00edndice<\/a><\/p>\n<h1 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Conversations in Washington<\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><b>[11<\/b><b>9<\/b><b>]<\/b> [119]<sup class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote \" data-mfn=\"2\" data-mfn-post-scope=\"00000000000007750000000000000000_1818\"><a href=\"javascript:void(0)\"  role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" aria-describedby=\"mfn-content-00000000000007750000000000000000_1818-2\">2<\/a><\/sup><span id=\"mfn-content-00000000000007750000000000000000_1818-2\" role=\"tooltip\" class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote__note\" tabindex=\"0\" data-mfn=\"2\">We kept the numeration given by the editor in the printed edition<\/span> At first, I view the thing as <i>one<\/i>, and I have to hold fast to it in this true determination. If in the movement of perceiving, there is something which comes up which contradicts that perceiving, then this is to be cognized as my reflection. Now, in perception various properties turn up that seem to be properties of things, yet the thing is One, and we ourselves are conscious of this diversity through which it ceases to be One as falling within us. The thing is therefore in fact only white as it is brought to <i>our<\/i> eyes, it is <i>also<\/i> tart on <i>our<\/i> tongues, and <i>also<\/i> cubical to <i>our<\/i> feel, etc. We do not take the entire diversity of these aspects from the thing but from ourselves. To us, they come undone from each other in this way because the eye is quite distinct from the tongue, and so on. We are thus the <i>universal medium<\/i> within which such moments dissociate themselves from each other, and in which each is on its own.<sup class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote \" data-mfn=\"3\" data-mfn-post-scope=\"00000000000007750000000000000000_1818\"><a href=\"javascript:void(0)\"  role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" aria-describedby=\"mfn-content-00000000000007750000000000000000_1818-3\">3<\/a><\/sup><span id=\"mfn-content-00000000000007750000000000000000_1818-3\" role=\"tooltip\" class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote__note\" tabindex=\"0\" data-mfn=\"3\">f\u00fcr sich<\/span> Thereby, since we regard this determinateness (that we are the universal medium) as our reflection, we preserve the self-equality and the truth of the thing, namely, its being One.<\/span><\/p>\n<h2 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Some clarifications<\/span><\/h2>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">The ideas expresed in this paragraph could be clarified by the distinction between <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Primary%E2%80%93secondary_quality_distinction\"><i><b>primary and secondary qualities<\/b><\/i><\/a> expounded by John Lock (<em>An Essay Concerning Human Understanding<\/em>).<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Qualities thus considered in bodies are: First, such as are utterly inseparable from the body [\u2026] [namely] solidity, extension, figure, and mobility [\u2026] Secondly, such qualities which in truth are nothing in the objects themselves but powers to produce various sensations in us by their <i><b>primary qualities<\/b><\/i>, ie by their bulk, figure, texture, and motion of their insensible parts, as colours, sounds, tastes, etc. These I call <i><b>secondary qualities<\/b><\/i> (<em>AECHU<\/em>, Book II, Ch. VIII, Section 9).<\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00120\/\">Siguiente p\u00e1rrafo<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00118\/\">P\u00e1rrafo anterior<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00000\/\">Ir al \u00edndice<\/a><\/p>\n<h1 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Conversaciones en el <em>Atrium<\/em><\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 14pt; color: #993300;\"><strong>EN CONSTRVCCION<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 14pt; color: #993300;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-7044\" src=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church-242x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"242\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church-242x300.jpg 242w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church-827x1024.jpg 827w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church-768x951.jpg 768w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church-300x371.jpg 300w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church.jpg 1018w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 242px) 100vw, 242px\" \/><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 14pt; color: #993300;\"><strong>EN CONSTRVCCION<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00120\/\">Siguiente p\u00e1rrafo<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00118\/\">P\u00e1rrafo anterior<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00000\/\">Ir al \u00edndice<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"wiki_cats":[18],"wiki_tags":[],"class_list":["post-1818","yada_wiki","type-yada_wiki","status-publish","hentry","wiki_cats-fenomenologia"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki\/1818","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/yada_wiki"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1818"}],"version-history":[{"count":12,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki\/1818\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":8308,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki\/1818\/revisions\/8308"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1818"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"wiki_cats","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/wiki_cats?post=1818"},{"taxonomy":"wiki_tags","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/wiki_tags?post=1818"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}