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{"id":1675,"date":"2023-04-20T12:33:42","date_gmt":"2023-04-20T12:33:42","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/?post_type=yada_wiki&#038;p=1675"},"modified":"2024-07-03T16:15:30","modified_gmt":"2024-07-03T16:15:30","slug":"gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00097","status":"publish","type":"yada_wiki","link":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00097\/","title":{"rendered":"Gespr\u00e4che in der D\u00e4mmerung 00097"},"content":{"rendered":"<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Parte de:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">A. Conciencia [A. Bewu\u00dftsein] \/ <strong>I: La certeza sensible; o el esto y el <i>Meynen<\/i> (el querer decir que se queda en el querer decir)<\/strong> [<strong>I. Die sinnliche Gewi\u00dfheit oder das Diese und das Meinen]<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">[El esto, el aqu\u00ed y el ahora; aquello en que se est\u00e1 pensando, o se est\u00e1 suponiendo o se est\u00e1 queriendo decir, el <i>Meynen<\/i>]<\/span><\/p>\n\n<h1 lang=\"de-DE\" style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Gespr\u00e4che in Jena<\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><strong>[97]<\/strong> Als ein Allgemeines <i>sprechen<\/i> wir auch das Sinnliche <i>aus<\/i>, was wir sagen, <i>ist: Dieses<\/i>, d.h. das <i>allgemeine Diese<\/i>, oder: <i>es ist<\/i>; d.h. das <i>Sein \u00fcberhaupt<\/i>. Wir <i>stellen<\/i> uns dabei freilich nicht das allgemeine Diese oder das Sein \u00fcberhaupt <i>vor<\/i>, aber wir <i>sprechen<\/i> das Allgemeine <i>aus<\/i>; oder wir sprechen schlechthin nicht, wie wir es in dieser sinnlichen Gewi\u00dfheit <i>meinen<\/i>. Die Sprache aber ist, wie wir sehen, das Wahrhaftere; in ihr widerlegen wir selbst unmittelbar unsere <i>Meinung<\/i>; und da das Allgemeine das Wahre der sinnlichen Gewi\u00dfheit ist und die Sprache nur dieses Wahre ausdr\u00fcckt, so ist es gar nicht m\u00f6glich, da\u00df wir ein sinnliches Sein, das wir <i>meinen<\/i>, je sagen k\u00f6nnen.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00098\/\">Siguiente p\u00e1rrafo<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00096\/\">P\u00e1rrafo anterior<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00000\/\">Ir al \u00edndice<\/a><\/p>\n<h1 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Conversaciones en Valencia<\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><strong>[97]<\/strong> Y tambi\u00e9n como universal <i>expresamos<\/i> lo sensible [y tambi\u00e9n lo sensible lo <i>declaramos <\/i>universal]; lo que decimos es: <i>esto<\/i>, es decir, el <i>esto universal<\/i> XX6X;<sup class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote \" data-mfn=\"1\" data-mfn-post-scope=\"000000000000078b0000000000000000_1675\"><a href=\"javascript:void(0)\"  role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" aria-describedby=\"mfn-content-000000000000078b0000000000000000_1675-1\">1<\/a><\/sup><span id=\"mfn-content-000000000000078b0000000000000000_1675-1\" role=\"tooltip\" class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote__note\" tabindex=\"0\" data-mfn=\"1\"><em>Vide infra<\/em> <strong>Algunas aclaraciones <a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00097\/#algunas-aclaraciones\">XX6X<\/a><\/strong>.<\/span> o: <i>es<\/i>, es decir, el <i>ser en general<\/i>. Ciertamente, al decir eso, no nos <i>representamos<\/i> el esto universal, o el ser en general, pero expresamos lo universal, es decir, lo estamos diciendo; o es que simplemente no decimos aquello que en esta certeza sensible <i>querr<\/i><i>\u00ed<\/i><i>amos decir<\/i> [en otra traducci\u00f3n: o es que simplemente no hablamos en absoluto como en esta certeza sensible <i>estamos pensando o queriendo decir<\/i>]. Pero el lenguaje, como vemos, es aqu\u00ed mucho m\u00e1s veraz; en \u00e9l refutamos nosotros mismos de forma inmediata aquello que <i>estamos pensando<\/i>, aquello que <i>querr<\/i><i>\u00ed<\/i><i>amos decir<\/i>, que <i>estamos suponiendo<\/i> [es decir, nuestro <i>Meynen<\/i>, nuestro estar suponiendo y queriendo decir lo que supuestamente ah\u00ed est\u00e1], y, como lo universal es lo verdadero de la certeza sensible y el lenguaje s\u00f3lo expresa esto verdadero de la certeza sensible [es decir, s\u00f3lo expresa lo universal], resulta que no es de ninguna manera posible poder decir alguna vez alg\u00fan ser sensible en que estemos pensando, que estemos suponiendo, que estemos <i>queriendo decir<\/i> [<i>Meynen<\/i>] [pues lo que estamos queriendo decir no es lo universal que decimos, sino el <i>esto<\/i>, que, de nuevo, es un \u00abuniversal\u00bb].<\/span><\/p>\n<h2 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Algunas aclaraciones<\/span><\/h2>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><strong>XX6X =<\/strong> Como he dicho, el motivo principal del presente cap\u00edtulo puede expresarse diciendo que en lo que la certeza sensible est\u00e1 pensando, a lo que la certeza sensible se est\u00e1 refiriendo, lo que la certeza sensible est\u00e1 queriendo decir (<i>meynt<\/i>) es el <i>esto<\/i>, pero lo que acaba teniendo es lo <i>universal<\/i>. El <i>esto<\/i> en que estaba pensando, el <i>esto<\/i> que estaba queriendo decir, el <i>esto<\/i> a que se estaba refiriendo, siempre ya se le ha escapado. El <i>esto<\/i>, como ense\u00f1\u00f3 Her\u00e1clito (y de ello se hac\u00eda eco Prot\u00e1goras) no es sino evanescencia. En el <i>Teeteto<\/i> la primera respuesta a la pregunta acerca de qu\u00e9 sea el saber, queda puesta directamente en relaci\u00f3n con Her\u00e1clito y Prot\u00e1goras. Y en todo caso parece que, cualquiera sea la respuesta a la que Plat\u00f3n finalmente llegue en su indagaci\u00f3n acerca de qu\u00e9 sea el saber, aquello a lo que Plat\u00f3n llegue (por m\u00e1s apor\u00e9ticamente que ello sea), habr\u00e1 de pasar, pues, esencialmente por el escepticismo de Prot\u00e1goras.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00098\/\">Siguiente p\u00e1rrafo<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00096\/\">P\u00e1rrafo anterior<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00000\/\">Ir al \u00edndice<\/a><\/p>\n<h1 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Conversaciones en Madrid<\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><strong>[97]<\/strong> Y como un universal <i>pronunciamos<\/i> tambi\u00e9n lo sensible; lo que decimos es: <i>esto<\/i>, es decir, el <i>esto universal<\/i>; o bien: <i>es<\/i>; es decir, el <i>ser en general<\/i>. Al hacer esto, no nos <i>representamos<\/i>, desde luego, el esto universal, o el ser en general, pero <i>pronunciamos<\/i> lo universal; o bien, no hablamos sin m\u00e1s tal como <i>queremos <\/i><i>\u00ed<\/i><i>ntimamente decir<\/i>, tal como <i>opinamos<\/i> en esta certeza sensorial. Pero, como vemos, el lenguaje es m\u00e1s de verdad; en \u00e9l, nosotros mismos refutamos inmediatamente nuestra <i>opini\u00f3n<\/i>, lo que queremos \u00edntimamente decir, y como lo universal es lo verdadero de la certeza sensorial, y el lenguaje expresa s\u00f3lo eso verdadero, resulta del todo imposible que nunca podamos decir un ser sensible que <i>queremos \u00edntimamente decir<\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00098\/\">Siguiente p\u00e1rrafo<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00096\/\">P\u00e1rrafo anterior<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00000\/\">Ir al \u00edndice<\/a><\/p>\n<h1 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Conversations in Washington<\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><strong>[97]<\/strong> [97]<sup class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote \" data-mfn=\"2\" data-mfn-post-scope=\"000000000000078b0000000000000000_1675\"><a href=\"javascript:void(0)\"  role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" aria-describedby=\"mfn-content-000000000000078b0000000000000000_1675-2\">2<\/a><\/sup><span id=\"mfn-content-000000000000078b0000000000000000_1675-2\" role=\"tooltip\" class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote__note\" tabindex=\"0\" data-mfn=\"2\">We kept the numeration given by the editor in the printed edition<\/span> We also <i>express<\/i> the sensuous as a universal, but what we say is: <i>This<\/i>, i.e., the <i>universal this<\/i>, or we say: <i>it is<\/i>, i.e., <i>being as such<\/i>. We thereby of course do not <i>represent<\/i> to ourselves the universal This or being as such, but we <i>express<\/i> the universal; or, in this sensuous-certainty we do not at all say what we <i>mean<\/i>.<sup class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote \" data-mfn=\"3\" data-mfn-post-scope=\"000000000000078b0000000000000000_1675\"><a href=\"javascript:void(0)\"  role=\"button\" aria-pressed=\"false\" aria-describedby=\"mfn-content-000000000000078b0000000000000000_1675-3\">3<\/a><\/sup><span id=\"mfn-content-000000000000078b0000000000000000_1675-3\" role=\"tooltip\" class=\"modern-footnotes-footnote__note\" tabindex=\"0\" data-mfn=\"3\"><em>meinen<\/em><\/span> However, as we see, language is the more truthful. In language, we immediately refute what we <i>mean to say<\/i>, and since the universal is the truth of sensuous-certainty, and language only expresses this truth, it is, in that way, not possible at all that we could say what we <i>mean<\/i> about sensuous being.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00098\/\">Siguiente p\u00e1rrafo<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00096\/\">P\u00e1rrafo anterior<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00000\/\">Ir al \u00edndice<\/a><\/p>\n<h1 style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\">Conversaciones en el <em>Atrium<\/em><\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 14pt; color: #993300;\"><strong>EN CONSTRVCCION<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 14pt; color: #993300;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-medium wp-image-7044\" src=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church-242x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"242\" height=\"300\" srcset=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church-242x300.jpg 242w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church-827x1024.jpg 827w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church-768x951.jpg 768w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church-300x371.jpg 300w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/05\/Construction_of_a_church.jpg 1018w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 242px) 100vw, 242px\" \/><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 14pt; color: #993300;\"><strong>EN CONSTRVCCION<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00098\/\">Siguiente p\u00e1rrafo<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00096\/\">P\u00e1rrafo anterior<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00000\/\">Ir al \u00edndice<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"wiki_cats":[18],"wiki_tags":[],"class_list":["post-1675","yada_wiki","type-yada_wiki","status-publish","hentry","wiki_cats-fenomenologia"],"aioseo_notices":[],"aioseo_head":"\n\t\t<!-- All in One SEO 4.9.8 - aioseo.com -->\n\t<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Parte de: A. Conciencia [A. Bewu\u00dftsein] \/ I: La certeza sensible; o el esto y el Meynen (el querer decir que se queda en el querer decir) [I. Die sinnliche Gewi\u00dfheit oder das Diese und das Meinen] [El esto, el aqu\u00ed y el ahora; aquello en que se est\u00e1 pensando, o se est\u00e1 suponiendo\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"max-image-preview:large\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"author\" content=\"gibranus\"\/>\n\t<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/gesprache-in-der-dammerung-00097\/\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"generator\" content=\"All in One SEO (AIOSEO) 4.9.8\" \/>\n\t\t<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"es_ES\" \/>\n\t\t<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Atrium Philosophicum - Una Wiki de Filosof\u00eda para quienes todav\u00eda quieren abrir los ojos.\" \/>\n\t\t<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n\t\t<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Gespr\u00e4che in der D\u00e4mmerung 00097 - Atrium Philosophicum\" \/>\n\t\t<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Parte de: A. Conciencia [A. 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