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{"id":10442,"date":"2024-11-03T23:26:50","date_gmt":"2024-11-03T23:26:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/?post_type=yada_wiki&#038;p=10442"},"modified":"2025-07-14T22:02:30","modified_gmt":"2025-07-14T22:02:30","slug":"what-is-political-philosophy-ii-005","status":"publish","type":"yada_wiki","link":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/what-is-political-philosophy-ii-005\/","title":{"rendered":"What is Political Philosophy? II 005"},"content":{"rendered":"<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 12pt;\">Parte de:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 12pt;\">\u00bfQu\u00e9 es la Filosof\u00eda Pol\u00edtica? \/ II. La soluci\u00f3n Cl\u00e1sica<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 12pt;\">Por Le\u014dnardus Str\u016bthi\u014d<\/span><\/p>\n\n<h1><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><strong><span lang=\"la-VA\">Le<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">\u014d<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">nard<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">\u012b<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\"> Str\u016bt<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">h<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">i<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\">\u012b<\/span><span lang=\"la-VA\"> verba<\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 12pt;\"><span lang=\"en-GB\">Why does <\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"><i>the<\/i><\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\"> Platonic dialogue about politics and laws begin with such an extensive conversation about wine? What is the artistic or logographic necessity demanding this? The proper interlocutors in a conversation about laws are old citizens of communiti<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">e<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">s famous for their laws, for their obedience and allegiance to their old laws. Such men understand best what living under <\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">l<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">aws, living in laws, means. They are the perfect incarnation of the spirit of laws: of lawfulness, of law-<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">a<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">bidingness. But their very virtue becomes a defect if there is no longer a question of preserving old laws, but of s<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">e<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">eking the best laws or introducing new and better ones. Their habits and their competence make these men impervious to suggestions for improvement. The Athenian induces them to participate in a conversation about wine-drinking, about a pleasure that is forbidden to them by their old laws. The talk about wine-drinking is a kind of vicarious enjoyment of wine, especially since wine-drinking is a forbidden pleasure. Perhaps the talk reminds the two old interlocutors of secret and pleasurable transgressions of their own. The effect of the talk about wine is therefore similar to the effect of actual wine-drinking; it loosens their tongues; it makes them young; it makes them bold, daring, willing to innovate. They must not actually drink wine, since this would impair their judgment. They must drink wine, not in deed, but in speech.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-10536 aligncenter\" src=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/greek-symposium-engraving-23082902-209x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"182\" height=\"261\" srcset=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/greek-symposium-engraving-23082902-209x300.jpg 209w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/greek-symposium-engraving-23082902-300x432.jpg 300w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/greek-symposium-engraving-23082902.jpg 417w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 182px) 100vw, 182px\" \/><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/what-is-political-philosophy-ii-006\/#leonardi-struthii-verba\">Next paragraph<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/what-is-political-philosophy-ii-004\/#leonardi-struthii-verba\">Previous paragraph<\/a><\/p>\n<h1><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><strong><span lang=\"en-GB\">Hisp<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">\u0101<\/span><span lang=\"en-GB\">nice<\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/h1>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"font-family: georgia, palatino, serif; font-size: 12pt;\"><span lang=\"es-ES\">\u00bfPor qu\u00e9<\/span><i> <\/i><span lang=\"es-ES\"><i>el<\/i><\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\"> di\u00e1logo <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">plat\u00f3nico sobre lo pol\u00edtico y las leyes <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">comienza con tan dilatada <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">conversaci\u00f3n sobre el vino? \u00bfCu\u00e1l es la necesidad art\u00edstica o <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">logogr\u00e1fica<\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\"> que as\u00ed lo demanda? Los interlocutores <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">adecuados<\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\"> para <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">una conversaci\u00f3n<\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\"> sobre las leyes son ciudadanos viejos de comunidades <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">famosas<\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\"> por sus c\u00f3digos, por su obediencia y por su lealtad a las leyes antiguas. <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">Tales hombres son los que mejor entienden lo que significa vivir bajo leyes, vivir dentro de la ley<\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">. <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">Son la encar<\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">naci\u00f3n perfecta del esp\u00edritu de las leyes: de la <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">legalidad, de la perdurabilidad de la ley. Pero, precisamente es<\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">a <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">virtud suya puede devenir en defecto si no se ejercita en preservar las antiguas leyes, sino <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">en buscar las mejores leyes o introducir unas nuevas y mejores.<\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\"> Sus costumbres y <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">sus competencias hacen a estos hombres impermeables a sugerencias de mejora. El ateniense los persuade a participar de una conversaci\u00f3n acerca del consumo de vino, acerca de un placer que est\u00e1 prohibido para ello por sus leyes antiguas. La conversaci\u00f3n sobre el consumo de vino es aqu\u00ed una especie de suced\u00e1neo del disfrute del vino, especialmente cuando beber vino es un placer prohibido. <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">La conversaci\u00f3n, quiz\u00e1, recuerde a los dos viejos interlocutores algunas de sus secretas pero placenteras transgresiones a dicha ley. El efecto de hablar sobre el vino es, por tanto, similar al efecto real de beberlo: les suelta la lengua, los vuelve j\u00f3venes, los vuelve audaces, intr\u00e9pidos, propensos a innovar. No deben beber vino realmente, pues esto perjudicar\u00eda su juicio. Deben <\/span><span lang=\"es-ES\">beber vino, no en acto, sino en discurso.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"wp-image-10536 aligncenter\" src=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/greek-symposium-engraving-23082902-209x300.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"169\" height=\"243\" srcset=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/greek-symposium-engraving-23082902-209x300.jpg 209w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/greek-symposium-engraving-23082902-300x432.jpg 300w, https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/greek-symposium-engraving-23082902.jpg 417w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 169px) 100vw, 169px\" \/><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/what-is-political-philosophy-ii-006\/#hispanice\">Siguiente p\u00e1rrafo<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/what-is-political-philosophy-ii-004\/#hispanice\">P\u00e1rrafo anterior<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/what-is-political-philosophy-ii-005\/\">Ir al inicio de esta entrada<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/que-es-la-filosofia-politica-leonardus-struthio\/\">Ir al Sumario y Presentaci\u00f3n<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><span style=\"font-size: 14pt; font-family: georgia, palatino, serif;\"><strong><span style=\"color: #993300;\">ARC\u0100NA IMPERI\u012a<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wiki\/arcana-imperii\/\">***<\/a><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","template":"","meta":{"om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"wiki_cats":[29],"wiki_tags":[],"class_list":["post-10442","yada_wiki","type-yada_wiki","status-publish","hentry","wiki_cats-political-philosophy-ii"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki\/10442","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/yada_wiki"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=10442"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki\/10442\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":10538,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/yada_wiki\/10442\/revisions\/10538"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=10442"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"wiki_cats","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/wiki_cats?post=10442"},{"taxonomy":"wiki_tags","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/atriumphilosophicum.es\/home\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/wiki_tags?post=10442"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}